bad girls do it well Cristy, 23, New York City. Hong Kong-Chinese American womanist.
This blog is a collection of the personal, the pretty, and the sociopolitical.
Trigger warning for rape/sexual assault, trans/misogyny, racism, and anti-Blackness.
You can message me via my ask box.

In the 1930s, men’s nipples were just as provocative, shameful and taboo as women’s are now, and men were protesting in much the same way. In 1930, four men went topless to Coney Island and were arrested. In 1935, a flash mob of topless men descended upon Atlantic City, 42 of whom were arrested. Men fought and they were heard, changing not only laws but social consciousness. And by 1936, men’s bare chests were accepted as the norm.

So why is it that 80 years later women can’t seem to achieve the same for their chests? Why can’t a mother proudly breastfeed her child in public without feeling sexualized? Why is a 17-year-old girl being asked to leave her own prom because a group of fathers find her too provocative?

[…] I am not trying to argue for mandatory toplessness, or even bralessness. What I am arguing for is a woman’s right to choose how she represents her body — and to make that choice based on personal desire and not a fear of how people will react to her or how society will judge her. No woman should be made to feel ashamed of her body.


Scout Willis, in XOJane, on Instagram’s nudity policy and why she recently strolled the NYC streets topless. Solid essay all around. I found this piece particularly interesting because I’d never heard about the men’s nipples thing. (via batmansymbol)

(via homoarigato)

thepeoplesrecord:

Women Artists Visibility Event: The Museum of Modern Art opens but not to women artists, NYC on June 14, 1984
Shot by Clarissa Sligh

Despite the increased visibility of women artists by 1984, most were not included in mainstream gallery or museum exhibitions. When the Museum Of Modern Art opened the exhibition the “International Survey of Painting and Sculpture,” with great fan fare, of the 169 artists chosen, all were white and less than 10 percent were women.

Women artists were incensed. The Women’s Caucus for Art and other women’s groups in the area organized to protest the underrepresentation of women artists.

Included in the photographs are Lucy Lippard, May Stevens, Linda Cunningham, Emma Amos, Sabra Moore, Sharon Jaddis, and Alida Walsh. The posters were pasted all over Soho, a vastly different place from the Soho of today.

(Source: thepeoplesrecord, via jeunglongan)

misandry-mermaid:

girlinfourcolors:

moniquill:

marxistfeministsport:

george-blagden-though:

equalaccountability:

mansplainedmarxist:

When I say something that should not be controversial 

Why aren’t 50% of coal miners women? Why not 50% of janitors or pest control workers? Don’t forget front line military!Likewise, why aren’t men 50% of college enrollment and 50% of teachers?
We should eliminate the stupid “personal choice” thing because forcing people into certain professions is way more fun.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FORCING PEOPLE INTO PROFESSIONSTHIS IS ABOUT WOMEN GOING INTO SCIENCE BEING DISCOURAGEDTHIS IS ABOUT WOMEN BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST

FIRST, WHAT GBT SAID.^
SECOND…
FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION WOMEN COAL MINERS.  BECAUSE I STUDY THEM.  AND GUESS WHAT?
Women had to fight court cases to be allowed into coal mines as workers.  Once a few women paved the way, thousands of women followed in short suit because on average, their incomes increased 500% over working as domestic workers, doing textile piecework and waitressing.  Some saw their income jump 1000%.  
Dig a little deeper, and you’ll find women have been mining coal for centuries.  They were pushed out in the Victorian period because the mansplainers of the day could tolerate women wielding such a phallic object as a shovel underground with male workers present.  And wearing pants!  Still, women disguised themselves as men to work in the mines.
Oh, and World War II.  Where did all the coal come from then?  Oh, that’s right.  Women.  Women who were expected to stand aside and let the men take their jobs when the war was over and were denied benefits when they later developed black lung.

Also, can we just talk about how absurd it is to say that women don’t make up 50% of ‘janitors’?Gee, I wonder if that’s because when a woman is hired to be the primary cleaner and caretaker of a property, it gets called ‘housekeeping’ or ‘maidservice’ and pays less than the EXACT SAME JOB, which if done by a man is given the title ‘janitor’?

Why aren’t men 50% of college enrollment? Because men aren’t 50% of college applications. No one’s exactly sure why, but the prevailing guess? Because it’s easier for men to get a professional job without a degree. Which means it’s easier for men to earn a living wage without going into debt. Which increases the already existent wealth gap, already exacerbated by the income gap.
(And if you’ll allow me to get all snarkily gender essentialist for a moment, maybe you boys just can’t cut it in higher ed. Even those of you getting into colleges are dropping out at rates WAY higher than women. They were probably just there looking for a wife to provide for them, though, am I right? Ah, get back in the toolshed, don’t worry your silly little heads about it.)

Oh my god I want to fucking marry this entire post.

misandry-mermaid:

girlinfourcolors:

moniquill:

marxistfeministsport:

george-blagden-though:

equalaccountability:

mansplainedmarxist:

When I say something that should not be controversial 

Why aren’t 50% of coal miners women? Why not 50% of janitors or pest control workers? Don’t forget front line military!
Likewise, why aren’t men 50% of college enrollment and 50% of teachers?

We should eliminate the stupid “personal choice” thing because forcing people into certain professions is way more fun.

THIS IS NOT ABOUT FORCING PEOPLE INTO PROFESSIONS
THIS IS ABOUT WOMEN GOING INTO SCIENCE BEING DISCOURAGED
THIS IS ABOUT WOMEN BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST

FIRST, WHAT GBT SAID.^

SECOND…

FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION WOMEN COAL MINERS.  BECAUSE I STUDY THEM.  AND GUESS WHAT?

Women had to fight court cases to be allowed into coal mines as workers.  Once a few women paved the way, thousands of women followed in short suit because on average, their incomes increased 500% over working as domestic workers, doing textile piecework and waitressing.  Some saw their income jump 1000%.  

Dig a little deeper, and you’ll find women have been mining coal for centuries.  They were pushed out in the Victorian period because the mansplainers of the day could tolerate women wielding such a phallic object as a shovel underground with male workers present.  And wearing pants!  Still, women disguised themselves as men to work in the mines.

Oh, and World War II.  Where did all the coal come from then?  Oh, that’s right.  Women.  Women who were expected to stand aside and let the men take their jobs when the war was over and were denied benefits when they later developed black lung.

Also, can we just talk about how absurd it is to say that women don’t make up 50% of ‘janitors’?
Gee, I wonder if that’s because when a woman is hired to be the primary cleaner and caretaker of a property, it gets called ‘housekeeping’ or ‘maidservice’ and pays less than the EXACT SAME JOB, which if done by a man is given the title ‘janitor’?

Why aren’t men 50% of college enrollment? Because men aren’t 50% of college applications. No one’s exactly sure why, but the prevailing guess? Because it’s easier for men to get a professional job without a degree. Which means it’s easier for men to earn a living wage without going into debt. Which increases the already existent wealth gap, already exacerbated by the income gap.

(And if you’ll allow me to get all snarkily gender essentialist for a moment, maybe you boys just can’t cut it in higher ed. Even those of you getting into colleges are dropping out at rates WAY higher than women. They were probably just there looking for a wife to provide for them, though, am I right? Ah, get back in the toolshed, don’t worry your silly little heads about it.)

Oh my god I want to fucking marry this entire post.

(via moo-ahyou)

hssanya:

Did you know that after they switched to blind auditions, major symphony orchestras hired women between 30% to 55% more? Before bringing in “blind auditions” with a screen to conceal the the candidate, women in the top 5 major orchestras made up less than 5% of the musicians performing.

(via vivanlosancestros)

(Source: what-is-this-fruitsnackery, via biscochozorro)

fanbingblink:

This hashtag is gold.

(via biscochozorro)

  • Microsoft: This E3, we're bringing you 8 more games where you play as a white dude shooting brown people and/or aliens.
  • Ubisoft: What the hell is a "woman"?
  • Nintendo: YOU WANNA PLAY AS ZELDA? YOU CAN PLAY AS ZELDA. YOU WANNA PLAY AS PALUTENA? YOU CAN PLAY AS HER TOO. YOU LIKED MIDNA? SHE'S BACK AS WELL.YOU LIKE COLORFUL GAMES? WE GOT A FUCKTON OF COLORFUL-ASS GAMES. YOU WANT CUTE SQUID GIRLS??!? WE GOT CUTE SQUID GIRLS!!!! YOU WANT OPEN WORLD ZELDA WITH AN ANDROGYNOUS PROTAGONIST THAT MIGHT BE ZELDA? WE FUCKIN GOT THAT TOO.
Perhaps the most widespread myth is the belief that mothers are favored by courts in custody disputes, which stopped being true decades ago. It is true that for roughly the first half of the 1900s the ‘Tender Years Doctrine’ was influential, and mothers had some advantage in gaining custody of young children. (Prior to about 1900, mothers had no rights regarding custody at all.) But in the 1970s the tide was turning back, for various reasons, and by the 1980s fathers were winning at least joint custody in a majority of the custody battles they undertook, and winning sole custody more often than mothers, a situation that remains today. And the fathers who are taking advantage of this imbalance are largely abusive ones; researchers have found that abusers are twice as likely as non-abusive men to seek custody.

[…]

Courts are highly reluctant to curtail fathers’ access to their children. As a number of court employees have said to me over the years, ‘There are so many fathers out there who abandon their children, and here I have a dad who wants to be involved; you’re telling me I should discourage him?’ As a result they tend to hold fathers to much lower standards than mothers. Supervised visitation is not often imposed, and usually gets lifted within a few months as long as the father behaves well under supervisions, as most abusive men do.

Lundy Bancroft in When Dad Hurts Mom: Helping Your Children Heal the Wounds of Witnessing Abuse (2004), pp. 240, 243–44 (via mikroblogolas)

(via bad-dominicana)

killsmedead:

pervocracy:

postwhitesociety:

hm

I think the “women are mysterious” thing can also come from:
1) Women actually being quite clear, but not telling men what they want to hear.  ”She said she doesn’t want to talk to me?  So many mixed messages and confusing signals!”
2) Women not having cheat codes.  ”I tried being nice, and she didn’t have sex with me.  I tried being an asshole, and she didn’t have sex with me.  Come on, there’s got to be some kind of solution to this puzzle!”
3) Women not being a hive mind.  ”First a woman told me that she likes guys with big muscles.  Then the very next day a woman told me she thinks muscles aren’t attractive at all.  Make up your mind, women!”
4) An individual woman doing something confusing, and instead of asking “why is she doing this now?” men ask “why do women always do this?”

#the problem is not that women overall are any more confusing than men #it is that the men who tend to think of women as monolithic are also the men who are stupid

killsmedead:

pervocracy:

postwhitesociety:

hm

I think the “women are mysterious” thing can also come from:

1) Women actually being quite clear, but not telling men what they want to hear.  ”She said she doesn’t want to talk to me?  So many mixed messages and confusing signals!”

2) Women not having cheat codes.  ”I tried being nice, and she didn’t have sex with me.  I tried being an asshole, and she didn’t have sex with me.  Come on, there’s got to be some kind of solution to this puzzle!”

3) Women not being a hive mind.  ”First a woman told me that she likes guys with big muscles.  Then the very next day a woman told me she thinks muscles aren’t attractive at all.  Make up your mind, women!”

4) An individual woman doing something confusing, and instead of asking “why is she doing this now?” men ask “why do women always do this?”

 

(Source: ethiopienne, via everythingisacasestudy)

Being born a woman is an awful tragedy. Yes, my consuming desire to mingle with road crews, sailors and soldiers, bar room regulars—to be a part of a scene, anonymous, listening, recording—all is spoiled by the fact that I am a girl, a female always in danger of assault and battery. My consuming interest in men and their lives is often misconstrued as a desire to seduce them, or as an invitation to intimacy. Yet, God, I want to talk to everybody I can as deeply as I can. I want to be able to sleep in an open field, to travel west, to walk freely at night.

Sylvia Plath

fuck every single time that last line gets quoted without the rest

(via the-smurf-on-fire)

(Source: raccoonwounds, via vivanlosancestros)

talesofthestarshipregeneration:

theroguefeminist:

winehouses:

As executive editor, Abramson’s starting salary in 2011 was $475,000, compared to Keller’s salary that year, $559,000. Her salary was raised to $503,000, and — only after she protested — was raised again to $525,000. She learned that her salary as managing editor, $398,000, was less than that of a male managing editor for news operations, John Geddes. She also learned that her salary as Washington bureau chief, from 2000 to 2003, was a hundred thousand dollars less than that of her predecessor in that position, Phil Taubman.

stay slimy, NYT

ha ha fuck the new york times

fuck all these old journalist establishments. they’re all sexist, racist and bullshit. just perish. you’re already heading that way

whoops! this is so fucking funny to me right now. And I wonder what the new editor is being paid cause he is a Black man as far as I have read and they pay Black men less than White men AND White women so. 

(via everythingisacasestudy)

Men and women differ in their language patterns; for example, research suggests that men interrupt women more than women do men (a finding that surprises most men but not most women).

Analyzing English Grammar, Klammer, Schulz, & Della Volpe, p. 21

you guys my grammar book is sassy

(via lattaite)

new goal: interrupt men I don’t like at every possible opportunity

(via flowersandfemme)

last week i facilitated an activity for a workshop in which everyone in the room would be timed to have 1 minute to speak, answer a question, etc. unsurprisingly, most women in the room spoke for way less than a minute and the men in the room spoke for more than a minute and were extremely angry at me for ruthlessly cutting them off.

(via tranqualizer)

(Source: katyrex, via tranqualizer)

ethiopienne:

Being a Black girl means having to second guess yourself when you want to speak up against dangerous Black male patriarchy because you know Black men are already viewed as violent and savage in the white supremacist social climate of the West.

Being a Black girl means being told you have to choose between your gender and your race—and not being able to explain why that’s impossible.

Being a Black girl means being told you’re simultaneously hypersexual and undesirable—and if you get assaulted, it’s because you were a ho.

Being a Black girl means being expected to explain all of this over and over and over, calmly and coolly and without blaming anyone or pointing any fingers or having the audacity to raise your voice—even though people will call you Angry(TM) regardless of your tone.

Being a Black girl means being silenced.

(Source: ethiopienne, via moo-ahyou)

sorayachemaly:

10 Simple Words Every Girl Should Learn
These behaviors, the interrupting and the over-talking, also happen as the result of difference in status, but gender rules.
It’s not hard to fathom why so many men tend to assume they are great and that what they have to say is more legitimate. It starts in childhood and never ends. Parents interrupt girls twice as often and hold them to stricter politeness norms. Teachers engage boys, who correctly see disruptive speech as a marker of dominant masculinity, more often and more dynamically than girls.
For example, male doctors invariably interrupt patients when they speak, especially female patients but patients rarely interrupt doctors in return. Unless the doctor is a woman. When that is the case, she interrupts far less and is herself interrupted more.
This is also true of senior managers in the workplace. Male bosses are not frequently talked over or stopped by those working for them, especially if they are women; however, female bosses are routinely interrupted by their male subordinates.
As adults, women’s speech is granted less authority. We aren’t thought of as able critics or as funny.
Men speak more, more often, and longer than women in mixed groups (classrooms, boardrooms, legislative bodies, expert media commentary and, for obvious reasons religious institutions.)
Indeed, in male-dominated problem solving groups including boards, committees, and legislatures, men speak 75% more than women, with negative effects on decisions reached. That’s why, as researchers summed up, “Having a seat at the table is not the same as having a voice.”
Even in movies and television, male actors engage in more disruptive speech and garner twice as much speaking and screen time as their female peers.
Listserve topics introduced by men have a much higher rate of response.
On Twitter, people retweet men two times as often as women.
The best part though is that we are socialized to think women talk more. Listener bias results in most people thinking that women are hogging the floor when men are actually dominating. Linguists have concluded that much of what is popularly understood about women and men being from different planets, verbally, confuses “women’s language” with “powerless language.”
This preference for what men have to say, supported by men and women both, is a variant on “mansplaining.” The word came out of an article by writer Rebecca Solnit, who explained that the tendency some men have to grant their own speech greater import than a perfectly competent woman’s is not a universal male trait, but the “intersection between overconfidence and cluelessness where some portion of that gender gets stuck.” Solnit’s tipping point experience really did take the cake. She was talking to a man at a cocktail party when he asked her what she did. She replied that she wrote books, and she described her most recent one, River of Shadows: Eadweard Muybridge and the Technological Wild West.The man interrupted her soon after she said the word Muybridge and asked, “And have you heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year?” He then waxed on, based on his reading of a review of the book, not even the book itself, until finally a friend said, “That’s her book.” He ignored that friend (also a woman) and she had to say it more than three times before “he went ashen” and walked away. If you are not a woman, ask any woman you know what this is like, because it is not fun and happens to all of us.
Last week as I sat in a cafe, a man in his 60′s stopped to ask me what I was writing. I told him, a book about gender and media and he said, “I went to a conference where someone talked about that a few years ago. I read a paper about it a few years ago. Did you know that car manufacturers use slightly denigrating images of women to sell cars? I’d be happy to help you.” After I suggested, smiling cheerily, that the images were beyond denigrating and definitively injurious to women’s dignity, free speech, and parity in culture he drifted off
In the wake of Larry Summers’ “women can’t do math” controversy several years ago, scientist Ben Barres wrote publicly about his experiences, first as a woman and later in life, as a male. As a female student at MIT, Barbara Barres was told by a professor after solving a particularly difficult math problem, “Your boyfriend must have solved it for you.” When several years after, as Ben Barres, he gave a well-received scientific speech, he overhead a member of the audience say, “His work is much better than his sister’s.”  Most notably, he concluded that one of the major benefits of being male was that he could now “even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man.”
 Really, practice those ten words. 
“Stop interrupting me.” 
“I just said that.”
“No explanation needed.”

sorayachemaly:

10 Simple Words Every Girl Should Learn

These behaviors, the interrupting and the over-talking, also happen as the result of difference in status, but gender rules.

  • It’s not hard to fathom why so many men tend to assume they are great and that what they have to say is more legitimate. It starts in childhood and never ends. Parents interrupt girls twice as often and hold them to stricter politeness norms. Teachers engage boys, who correctly see disruptive speech as a marker of dominant masculinity, more often and more dynamically than girls.
  • For example, male doctors invariably interrupt patients when they speak, especially female patients but patients rarely interrupt doctors in return. Unless the doctor is a woman. When that is the case, she interrupts far less and is herself interrupted more.
  • This is also true of senior managers in the workplace. Male bosses are not frequently talked over or stopped by those working for them, especially if they are women; however, female bosses are routinely interrupted by their male subordinates.
  • As adults, women’s speech is granted less authority. We aren’t thought of as able critics or as funny.
  • Men speak moremore often, and longer than women in mixed groups (classroomsboardroomslegislative bodiesexpert media commentary and, for obvious reasons religious institutions.)
  • Indeed, in male-dominated problem solving groups including boards, committees, and legislatures, men speak 75% more than women, with negative effects on decisions reached. That’s why, as researchers summed up, “Having a seat at the table is not the same as having a voice.”
  • Even in movies and television, male actors engage in more disruptive speech and garner twice as much speaking and screen time as their female peers.
  • Listserve topics introduced by men have a much higher rate of response.
  • On Twitter, people retweet men two times as often as women.

The best part though is that we are socialized to think women talk more. Listener bias results in most people thinking that women are hogging the floor when men are actually dominating. Linguists have concluded that much of what is popularly understood about women and men being from different planets, verbally, confuses “women’s language” with “powerless language.”

This preference for what men have to say, supported by men and women both, is a variant on “mansplaining.” The word came out of an article by writer Rebecca Solnit, who explained that the tendency some men have to grant their own speech greater import than a perfectly competent woman’s is not a universal male trait, but the “intersection between overconfidence and cluelessness where some portion of that gender gets stuck.” Solnit’s tipping point experience really did take the cake. She was talking to a man at a cocktail party when he asked her what she did. She replied that she wrote books, and she described her most recent one, River of Shadows: Eadweard Muybridge and the Technological Wild West.The man interrupted her soon after she said the word Muybridge and asked, “And have you heard about the very important Muybridge book that came out this year?” He then waxed on, based on his reading of a review of the book, not even the book itself, until finally a friend said, “That’s her book.” He ignored that friend (also a woman) and she had to say it more than three times before “he went ashen” and walked away. If you are not a woman, ask any woman you know what this is like, because it is not fun and happens to all of us.

Last week as I sat in a cafe, a man in his 60s stopped to ask me what I was writing. I told him, a book about gender and media and he said, “I went to a conference where someone talked about that a few years ago. I read a paper about it a few years ago. Did you know that car manufacturers use slightly denigrating images of women to sell cars? I’d be happy to help you.” After I suggested, smiling cheerily, that the images were beyond denigrating and definitively injurious to women’s dignity, free speech, and parity in culture he drifted off

In the wake of Larry Summers’ “women can’t do math” controversy several years ago, scientist Ben Barres wrote publicly about his experiences, first as a woman and later in life, as a male. As a female student at MIT, Barbara Barres was told by a professor after solving a particularly difficult math problem, “Your boyfriend must have solved it for you.” When several years after, as Ben Barres, he gave a well-received scientific speech, he overhead a member of the audience say, “His work is much better than his sister’s.”  Most notably, he concluded that one of the major benefits of being male was that he could now “even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man.”

 Really, practice those ten words

“Stop interrupting me.” 

“I just said that.”

“No explanation needed.”

(via solaceames)

Anonymous said: i really want a double eyelid surgery but am afraid of the backlash from other east asians ex "you wanted to look white" "you're betraying ur race" etc etc is it considered internalized racism? the goal isn't to look white but to avoid applying copious amounts of eye makeup to look alert without ppl asking me why i look tired all the time

wednypls:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

thisisnotchina:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

emiiii-chan:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

emiiii-chan:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

emiiii-chan:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

thisisnotchina:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

thisisnotchina:

dating-as-an-asianguy:

thisisnotchina:

I’ve known a few girls who’ve had the surgery done, although while they were visiting China or Korea. They seem happy with their decision. Ultimately it’s your choice.

I think for many Asian women, coming to feel like we should get double eyelid surgery is influenced by beauty standards that are undoubtedly coloured by Eurocentric beauty standards (even in Asia). However, this doesn’t simplify to the kind of internalised racism that many people assume is the motivation behind all such surgeries.

I think for any matter of a woman choosing to “alter” herself in some way for aesthetic reasons, there will be people out there making assumptions about who she is, why she does it, etc. (“She probably wears that much makeup because she has low self-esteem”, “Breast augmentation? She must be a slut who just wants men’s attention”, “Nose job? She’s superficial and shallow and only cares about her looks”, etc.) When it’s such a racialised trait, the issue is further complicated.

Again I will reiterate that it’s your decision, but please think it through carefully. I have no judgements against the individual Asian women who opt for eyelid surgery, but most people you meet will not be so accepting. If you go through with it, remember that you shouldn’t have to defend your decision to random people who choose to dissect your life choices.

Of course finally I will add that, while thinking about it, do consider that monolids can be beautiful, even on you! I have one monolid and one double eyelid and there are days when I wish they were both monolid, because there are some beautiful monolid looks out there that I’d love to try. As a fellow East Asian woman who’s fretted about her eyelids before, I know you must have sought out resources already, but here are some blogs I like that feature monolid makeup:

Some of my favourite models and celebrities with monolids are Ju Xiaowen (Chinese model) and Son Ga-in (Korean singer).

-n

It’s almost certain that your decision has been influenced by Eurocentric standards. It’s not about how “strong” you are to resist such influences; simply by existing, we are all influenced by these standards in one way or another.

Rather, look at the aggregate big picture. Are you sometimes embarrassed by your heritage? Do you have any issues hanging out with or dating other Asians? Do you idealize European culture and dream of living in Paris or Rome or Barcelona while looking down on Asian locales? Do you have problems finding Asians attractive?

If you’re inclined to say yes to many od those questions, then I would say that your desire to get plastic surgery is rooted in very serious problems. If not, then in an ideal world, we should all be happy with our features, especially our ethnically unique features. But I do understand the pressures of a superficial society and the double standards it makes in emphasizing narrow standards of beauty, then castigating those who want to attain those standards.

I don’t mean this dismissively, but I really don’t think your voice has a place in this discussion. Men do not understand what it’s like to fit standards of beauty like women do. Asian men do not understand motivations behind eyelid surgery the way Asian women do.

I agree with you about looking at an “aggregate big picture”. I agree that Eurocentric beauty standards are undeniably a factor. But I want to beat down this myth that all — or even a majority — of Asian women who get eyelid surgery are doing so because of direct feelings of shame related to their culture, ethnicity or race. That you ask these questions about being ashamed of associating with other Asians, about idolising Europe, shows me you have very little idea of the reality of the type of women who often get eyelid surgery. I know plenty of women — young and old — who have gotten eyelid surgery. And you know what the usual profile is? Most of these women are strongly connected to their cultures, have majority Asian friends and partners, would rather go to Tokyo than Paris, and look to Kpop idols as beauty ideals over blonde white women celebrities in the West. I know that for some Asian women who get eyelid surgery, their narrative does revolve around direct feelings of shame about their “Asian-ness”. And these are the kind of stories picked up on the Tyra Banks show, written about in our human interest stories here, because it’s easy to swallow and centres around whiteness. But I need for outsiders to stop assuming this is the only narrative there is behind eyelid surgery.

I’m not trying to defend eyelid surgery. I agree that in an ideal world we would be happy with what we have. I wish there was more representation of monolid beauty in the media, both in Asia and elsewhere. I wish so many women didn’t have to feel like beauty and physical appearance were essential to their acceptance in our society. But if you’re not a woman, and in this case if you are not an East Asian woman, you do not have the personal context to understand this issue. Period.

-n

The pressures between Asian women and men to be beautiful (within a narrow context) are vastly different, and I acknowledged that. I said that I greatly dislike the hypocrisy of a culture that says that while beauty is paramount, only those who are born with it should reap its rewards.

But take a look at male Asian celebrities. Many of them get the same procedures done for very similar reasons: because they’re inundated with the idea that “Asian eyes,” Asian noses,” and “Asian jawlines” are somehow inherently undesirable, and they need to be infused with some Europeanness, or perceived Europeanness. 

I have male friends who’ve gotten eyelid and nose jobs. From early on in my life, I became aware of what “ssangkapeul” meant, and why it was desirable for both women and men to have it.

There are 2 aspects to this issue: the racial and the gender one. I have grounds to address it from a racial perspective. 

Just saying, “You’re male so your thoughts are automatically irrelevant” won’t help. Asian guys aren’t White guys who are so laden with privilege and advantages that we need to make space on the stage that we so dominate. We are affected by Eurocentrism just as much as Asian women are.

wow ok listen

i’m going to speak to you as an asian american man since apparently you won’t listen to my female co-mod

beauty standards are a patriarchal construct that very disproportionately affects women. like okay yes, there are beauty standards for men, and yes, there are male asian actors like jackie chan who have quite notably undergone double eyelid surgery to broaden their appeal.

but this is very largely an issue that affects women over men. i will give you an example: when i was growing up, my mother would tell me that i had single eyelids, or one single and one double, and compare them to her eyelids. so i grew up aware that this was a thing. however, it wasn’t until much later when i made more female asian friends that i understood this as a beauty standard. as a boy, this was never presented to me as a beauty standard, just a matter-of-fact difference. it took listening to asian women that i understood the deeper cultural, sexist, and racist implications.

when asian women talk about double eyelid surgery, they are operating within a framework where their own features are considered undesirable, not only because of racist beauty standards in a globalized cultural economy, but also within the sexist beauty standards of an asian cultural economy. it is absolutely inappropriate for you, as a man, to jump into these conversations and psychoanalyze an asian woman and blame her desire to get surgery as being ashamed of her race, because many asian women in asia are pressured into getting double eyelid surgery because of asian beauty standards. yes, western cultural imperialism undoubtedly plays a role, but these standards are not entirely western or racist. by proposing a list of questions in order to try to prove that the anon is or is not ashamed of her race, you are ignoring the ways in which asian women are held responsible for their appearance by multiple systems of oppression.

lastly, i find it highly inappropriate for you, as someone with male privilege, to talk over asian women. while you may share experiences of racism, this is specifically an experience of racialized sexism, and it is wholly not your place to tell asian women they are wrong when talking about sexist acts.

-e

I never blamed anyone for hating their own race solely because of surgery. I said that a desire for surgery, if combined with a long list of other factors that show a desire to disassociate oneself with “Asianness,” could possibly point to a serious identity issue. This is an obvious truth.

Ask Julie Chen about getting surgery because of wanting to look less Asian in order to gain acceptance from a White world.

It COULD point to an issue, but what’s your point exactly and how are you even helping?

My point is that unless you have a lot of other serious self-hating issues, don’t feel too bad about getting plastic surgery because we live in a very superficial world that demands beauty, but only “natural” beauty. It’s like how magazines glorify women who eat a lot, but only if they stay thin.

With time, we can hopefully move towards a world that doesn’t need plastic surgery. But you shouldn’t beat yourself up over it if you “give in,” especially if you’re female because the scrutiny on female appearance is much higher than that on males.

I have way more problems with people who abhor plastic surgery because they only want “naturally pretty” girls.

Okay so I still don’t see how you’re helping if you’re first telling girls to quardruple check their whiteness motives because apparently it matters to you even though they already said it’s not to be white and then telling them it’s okay to get plastic surgery but you hope they’ll never need to get it. You’re really just not helping at all and we don’t need your approval?

The original poster was worried about backlash from other East Asians. I’m East Asian, so I was just offering my feedback. I know that nobody needs my approval; it’s just one thought in a sea of many. 

And my “advice” goes to guys as well because almost all Asians feel as though their uniquely ethnic features are ugly at some point or another.

OH WOW I GUESS YOU WERE ACTUALLY REALLYREALLYREALLYREALLYREALLY HELPFUL THEN SORRY IM SO SO WRONG THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR SIMULTANEOUS APPROVAL AND DISAPPROVAL FOR THIS PERSON WHO WAS ASKING thisisnotchina ABOUT INTERNALIZED RACISM

Remember, the more caps, the more cogent your argument. 

yo, you are acting SUPER inappropriately and stepping WAY out of line as an asian man speaking over asian women here.

  1. as emiii-chan pointed out, OP SPECIFICALLY SAID THEIR DESIRE IS NOT TO LOOK WHITE. thus it is really inappropriate for you to list a series of questions trying to prove them wrong. it seems to me that you are projecting your own racial insecurities on this person, rather than accepting what they have to say at face value. if the anon claims that they are not trying to look white, it is NOT your place to try to bait them into admitting that they are.
  2. using julie chen as an example is both decontextualizing julie chen and an inappropriate use of one example of an asian woman in order to prove all asian women wrong. she has specifically stated that she was pressured by white men into getting the surgery done. not once did she claim to be motivated by a hatred of her racial features. she has stated that she does not feel any less chinese for having done the surgery. by using her as an example, you are again projecting your own narrative onto her and discrediting her. her narrative is about a chinese american woman trying to succeed in a field dominated by white men. it has NOTHING to do with self-hatred and EVERYTHING to do with the ways in which asian women are marginalized in american television.
  3. further, it is incredibly inappropriate for you to tell women how they should or shouldn’t alter their bodies in order to navigate the often contradictory beauty standards set for them. it is inappropriate for you to then turn this conversation into “let’s talk about how this affects all asians, not just women!” when we are talking about asian women. it is an example of your privilege as a straight man that you feel like you need a voice in this conversation when it has literally nothing to do with you. you are erasing asian women from a conversation that is specifically about them by demanding that they listen to your voice. you are ignoring your position as a privileged person in this conversation.
  4. finally, it is 100000000000000000000% inappropriate for you to tell asian women not to express their anger when, again, this is a conversation about asian women. you are entering this conversation from a position of privilege. when you tell asian women how they should or should not react to sexism, you are using your position of privilege NOT to support them as an ally should, but rather to REINFORCE patriarchal and sexist ideas about how proper women should speak in such a way that minimizes their voices and paints them as illogical.

please leave this conversation until you are ready to listen to what asian women have to say, instead of speaking for and above them as a man.

-e

When it comes to minorities in America, racism and sexism are intricately linked. It’s not as if we’re White people who don’t have to worry about race, so they can ignore that as a factor when dealing with sexism.

Plastic surgery that seeks to minimize Asians’ ethnically unique features is an issue that greatly affects both Asian men and women. Asian men should  not be treated as some isolated variable since Asian men are both victims and perpetrators of Eurocentrism as well.

I’m most familiar with Korean pop culture, so I will use that as an example. It’s about as common for male popstars to undergo procedures as it is for females. Singers like Kim Bum Soo and Park Hyo Shin were forbidden from even showing their face in public until they had some work done, even if they had great voices. Have you ever been to Korea? I’ve spent years there. The plastic surgery ads feature men about as often as women.

I am NOT saying that Asian men have it as hard as women when it comes to appearances. I am saying that we are all affected by the same Eurocentric standards, and because of that, our input may add something to the conversation. We are NOT like White people who can neatly delineate themselves along gender lines because they don’t have to worry about race. 

If you don’t agree with what I said, that’s fine. But don’t just discount whatever I said merely because of my gender. Asians are all in this together.

"we’re all in this together" please take your High School Musical bullshit, shove it up your ass, keep talking over Asian women and then flip-flopping as you try to cover up your own sexist bullshit by citing Julie Chen as the spokesperson for all Asian women everywhere (EVEN IN ASIA), and then drawing the false equivalencies of male KPop idols having work done and making sweeping generalizations about the plastic surgery culture in Korea when it’s different from the one in the States and elsewhere.

go ahead and keep being condescending to Asian women who have told you time and time again it’s NOT JUST BECAUSE OF YOUR GENDER THAT YOU’RE BEING AN ASSHOLE